Where are my menus?
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Category: Codejock Products
Forum Name: Skin Framework
Forum Description: Topics Related to Codejock Skin Framework
URL: http://forum.codejock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9627
Printed Date: 21 November 2024 at 9:34am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Where are my menus?
Posted By: sabarntt
Subject: Where are my menus?
Date Posted: 19 February 2008 at 6:28am
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I'm evaluating SkinFramework and have to say that it's the easiest and most accurate tool I've tried so far. Only problem is, my menus have disappeared! I'm working with a VB6 app (very old) with a lot of menus, many of which are quite complex. When the main window is displayed, the menu isn't visible. If I press the accellerator key, the menus do pop-up on the window title bar, but that's not exactly helpful.
Is there a setting I'm missing to force the display of the menus? So far, this is the only (but significant) barrier to purchasing this tool.
Thnks
Steve
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Replies:
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 6:56am
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Since I've got no reply here, I've emailed technical support. If I get a response, I'll post it here.
Steve
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Posted By: SuperMario
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 9:20am
| Simply place a Commandbars controls on your form, nothing else, no code. It will translate your current VB menu for you. You must do this when using skin framework. Or you could write your menus in code instead of using the VB menus. |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 10:22am
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Sorry, that's not working.
On a popup-window where I have a small menu, I can get the menu dsplayed if I add a CommandBarFrame and the CommandBar control. On the MDI main form, I tried the same, but only get the frame displayed, no menu. If I use the accelerator keys, a shadow appears where the menu item is and the drop dwn menu appears, but the menu itslef never appears.
I'm also concerned at the amount of re-coding I'm going to be faced with if this is the only solution. There are many menus in my app and a lot of code to show/hide or enable/disable menu items, none of which seems to work once the CommandBar is in place.
What was a week to skin the app just turned in to three months to re-code the app. Not sure I can justify that to my bosses. Plus there is the added expense of another control - that wasn't mentioned in the product description (unless I missed it).
I'll keep you as a possibility but will have to look at other products. Menus are kind of fundamental to the app (most apps I would have thought).
Thanks
Steve
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Posted By: Oleg
Date Posted: 20 February 2008 at 1:01pm
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Hello,
Have to work wit MDI menus too if you don't have some special code. Can you try to reproduce it with new MDI project ? ------------- Oleg, Support Team CODEJOCK SOFTWARE SOLUTIONS |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 3:11am
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I'll see what I can do. Problem is, getting the app skinned is the priority and, when I explained to the boss the extra work necessary to get menus working again, he told me to move on to another product.
It's a big job to re-work the menus. He's not too bothered about the additional cost (we would have bought the full suite) but the extra time has to be justified. In the 30 minutes I spent with the CommandBars I had problems with:
Also, some of my forms are expandable, depending on options the user sets. These are all now the wrong size because of the CommandBar being a different size to ordinary menus. No doubts there are simple solutions to some of these things, but it's not the "just drop a commandbar component on the form" solution that was offered to me.
It doesn't help that two of the other packages I tried first did menu's automatically.
Steve
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Posted By: Source
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 4:17am
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... and "two of the other packages" are? only for the records!
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Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 4:34am
| AppFace & SkinCrafter |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 8:21am
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I had a further play over lunch (I really want to make this work!).
I took the supplied sample VB6 app and added a standard menu. That, obviously, didn't appear on the skinned app. Ok, that was expected.
I then dropped a CommandBar control on the form and ran again. The menu appeared, but was hidden behind the existing controls, from which I took it that I had to leave a gap at the top of the form for the menu to be painted. Once I added a gap, I got the menu and it functioned. Progress!
Next, I added a toolbar (my 'real' app is a mixture of menus and toolbars). I actually added a CommandBarFrame and aligned it to the top of the form. When I ran the program, the menu was gone again. It appears that the CommandBarFrame hides the menu.
I tried deleting the CommandBar control and placing a new one on top of the frame I had added, but that did nothing to help.
No doubts this is down to my inexperience, but I see no way to get the existing menu to co-exist with the toolbars.
Steve
P.S. SkinCrafter did a wonderful job with my menus - it was the rest of the app it failed miserably with. The CodeJock control is by far the best I've tried. I just don't understand why it's let down by menu handling.
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Posted By: Oleg
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 8:28am
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Hi, if you use CommandBars you don't need additional CommandBarsFrame for Toolbars - just call CommandBars.Add to add Toolbar under menu. ------------- Oleg, Support Team CODEJOCK SOFTWARE SOLUTIONS |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 8:38am
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So, in addition to re-building my code for manipulating menus, I'll need to re-build all of my toolbars too?
My MDI main form currently contains five (optional) toolbars. If I understand what you're saying, in order to get menus with the SkinFramework, I need to use the CommandBar control to get a menu and, if I use a CommandBar to get the menu, I need to re-define the five toolbars too in order to make them compatible with the menu.
Darn! (That's not what I was actually thinking).
Steve
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Posted By: SuperMario
Date Posted: 21 February 2008 at 9:23am
| It will skin your standard toolbars, but using CommandBars looks allot better. |
Posted By: cecsoft
Date Posted: 05 March 2008 at 1:44pm
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Good day all I faced this problem and I decided to stop using this skin control.
I spent a lot of time to solve this problem.
Dear Support group, I think you must repair this problem.
not to you This problem to wast our time.
Thank you
------------- cec |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 06 March 2008 at 3:06am
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We've shelved the project. To be frank, we found nothing as good as this for skinning, but couldn't make a case for re-writing large chunks of code for menus and toolbars.
Steve
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Posted By: Boris
Date Posted: 17 April 2008 at 10:02pm
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Hi, I'm using VS2005 coding in VB.net. I also cannot get the commandbar to take over the functionality of the built in menu
Regards,
Boris ------------- Boris Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 16.4.0 16.3.1 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 3 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 SP6 VS 2005-2008-2010-2013 |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 12:00am
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The simple issue with this is, if you add any sort of container (I used threed), the menus won't appear. I ended up hard coding my menus from scratch with the Commandbars. An unfortunate waste of valuable time. I'm still trying to get all the kinks out with regard to whole menues and/or menu items being enabled, visible or whatever, depending on the situation. It was sooooo much easier using the VB standard way.
Codejock just does not "get it". They have it set in their heads that hard coding is as fast and simple as a designer, such as the VB menu editor
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Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 19 April 2008 at 1:06pm
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Actually, it's simpler still. When I told my boss how much work was involved in solving this issue (and also being forced to convert tool bars too) he canned the project. CodeJock were the only people left in the running so lost out on a licence.
It would be good if some enterprising individual at CodeJock produced a conversion tool to convert VB menus to use commandbars... at least that would reduce the effort necessary to upgrade apps.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 07 May 2008 at 1:17pm
Hi,
First of all the Commandbars will convert the VB menu automatically OR you can use Commandbar designer to "import" the VB (!!! visible) menu. There's one issue with popup menus. It looks like that they won't be converted automatically (or maybe I'm doing something wrong), but it could be possible in designer when you set all menu items visible.
The first time I wanted to use Commandbars it looked very difficult but now, it's a piece of cake
 If I have to make my menu again it would be less than a day (not using designer, only with code). I guess everyone is a little afraid the first time  "Importing" with designer you would have to load the menu and add the Execute event. In this event you could make calls to the original menu events. And automatically you can use the original subs. And in combination with SkinFramework I could turn my old app into a modern styled app, just in a few hours.
I have used CJ Suite for 3 months and I'm very pleased with (almost  )everything------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
sabarntt wrote:Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 08 May 2008 at 3:19am
Absolutely right. I dropped a commandbar on the form and it converted the menus... fantastic. However, I also had toolbars on the form. When you have toolbars, the converted menu does not appear. So, back to square one - to make menus work you also have to convert toolbars.
Also, I have a lot of code to enable and disable individual menu items. None of this code had any effect. If the standard menu were handled, I wouldn't have to change any code.
The only point I am making here is that there is a truely fantastic skinning product here - far better than any other package I tried - that shoots itself in the foot by not handling menus. Just repeating the "use command bars" mantra does noting to solve the problem and, in my case, has driven away a customer.
Steve
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 2:45am
Hi,
Now I know what you mean. I had to dig a little further
The menu does show but the menu items are all enabled and don't react on anything, you have to write code for handling the update event. The click events will fire that's true, so no code here. Then there are the toolbars. I managed to get the toolbars visible (looping through the toolbar items and add a button for each toolbar item, even with dropdown buttons
) but also here the update event must be handled and again write code. I think to get it all right you better build the Menu and Toolbars from scratch and not trying to use the old VB menu. When using only the SkinFramework all looks (very) nice but you have an ugly menu. Would be nice if the SkinFrameWork also would skin the VB menu...
Strange that just a few members complain about this. I think they all agree with me when I say it's not that difficult to build a menu with toolbars from scratch
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 3:37am
When I used the automatic conversion of menus, the menu strip didn't appear at all. I could use the accelerator keys to bring menus up, but couldn't see the top level of menu. In order to make the menu visible, I had to make the toolbars invisible.
That's the issue. My app is large and has a large number of forms, many of which have menus and toolbars. The point of a skinning app was to update the look and feel with the minimum of work. What I wasn't looking for was 6 months of re-work.
I think people don't complain because it's plain that CodeJock couldn't care less. They've decided that you should rebuild your menus using another package of theirs (so you get extra cost too) and that's the end of it for them. To me is shows a real contempt for customers.
Depends on what's involved. I have a lot of menus that would need conversion and, yes, that could be achieved realtively easily assuming I had the time to do it. THEN I have to re-work all of the toolbars too, which is rather more complex and add more time to the re-work. THEN I need to re-work all my code for enabling/disabling and hiding/showing menu and toolbar items.
It's not that difficult to lay a brick but building a house takes rather more time.
Steve
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Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 9:26am
And renovating can take even longer - especially if you have to completely rework the plumbing ... but with obsticles.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 9:38am
Hi,
When you have to renovate, your menu was not well structured, in this case I certainly recommend that you are going to rebuild your menu
Why don't you try it once, mister negativity 1 and 2 ------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 09 May 2008 at 12:16pm
| I have done it! I had no choice. Refer to my first post in this thread where I explain that. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:10am
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Hi,
I rebuilt all my menus and toolbars and I'm glad that I did. Now it's more structured then before, only one execute and only update event AND several options which I can only dream of when using the VB menu (no more searching on the internet and looking for a menu with icons, not even that is possible) If I look at my app now, it's (going to) look(s) better then ever and in combination with SkinFrameWork I give it
 hehehe. I haven't explored all possible options with CJ controls but it looks great till now and easy to use (and the things we don't know we post here ) And if the number of members keeps growing, CJ will continue developing the controls for us. So don't let us down by NOT joining our group....Note: this is not a commercial for CodeJock (and I don't get any extra airmiles for this ) ------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 11 May 2008 at 2:47pm
I'm pleased it worked out for you. Unfortunately, 'The Management' took the view that so large an effort (menus and toolbars) wasn't worth it for our app.
I wish I could believe that. However, CodeJock have showed absolutely no interest in this issue and feel that it's not their problem to solve. They have shown no willingness to even look at the possibility of skinning menus, so I suspect no amount of discussion here is going to influence them.
The problem that leaves me with is that I would not feel comfortable buying their controls. How can you have confidence when they show no interest in something as fundamental as this.
Steve
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Posted By: strider
Date Posted: 19 June 2008 at 12:30pm
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I am also having a similar menu problem with my VB app. In my case, I am using a 3rd party control on my form. This control has its own menus that I do not have direct code access to. I also don't have control over sending the menu selections to the control. So, I can't rebuild my menus.
At this point the only option I have is to remove the skin from this window. The form looks out of place, but at least they can get to their menus.
The rest of my application looks fantastic!
------------- ActiveX 13.2.1 Strider |
Posted By: shipwreck
Date Posted: 20 June 2008 at 9:55pm
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Alright, I'd say your best option is to start a new MDI-Project like Oleg mentioned. and build your menu's with CommandBars. The Commandbars function much faster and cleaner than the ol' Menu Editor that VB has builtin. Trust me, do this, and you won't regret it.
Peace. =] ------------- Product: Xtreme Suite Pro (Active-X), Version 15.3.1 Platform: Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (64Bit) & Windows XP Mode SP3 (32Bit) Language: Visual Basic 6.0 SP6 |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:32am
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Hi,
This for mister negativity:
Try V12.1 Beta and most of your problems would be solved
I did rebuild an old VB app and it works nice. Menu, popupmenu and system popupmenu skinned like you wanted it, without having to rewrite any code  ------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 15 September 2008 at 11:44am
"mister negativity"... way to win customers. So, fundamentally, what you're saying here is that pointing out holes in a product is being negative, huh? In my day, it was called 'useful customer feedback that leads to product enhancement and potential increased sales'.
But then, I'm getting old.
I will, however, give it a try. Thank you for posting this message.
Steve
Update: Ah, chicken and egg. In order to get beta software you have to be a customer. I'm not a customer because the product didn't do what was expected of it. I've emailed to request access but am expecting to be rejected because I'm not a customer. The fun just keeps rolling along.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 12:53am
Hi,
Just for the record... I'm just a user of the product, just like you
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 16 September 2008 at 10:34am
Not a user yet! Sadly, it's also looking less likely that I will be a customer (I am trying to become one, honest). I registered on the beta test site and applied for the beta test software and didn't get a reply.
Now, that may just be because I'm not a customer or it may just be a time thing and my request hasn't been processed yet. Either way, I've been unable to try the new version.
Time, however, is running out. I'm hoping to change jobs soon (second interview tomorrow!), so the impetus to get this project resurrected will leave with me, assuming I can't get it up and running before I leave.
Steve
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Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 3:11am
Alas no. I've just heard back from the beta test people and I can't have the beta copy of the software. Seems only customers get beta test versions and, because the software didn't do what I wanted, I didn't purchase it and didn't become a customer.
So, my options are to give up or to buy a piece of software that us "functionally-challenged" in order to get a beta test of software that may still not work.
I don't fuly understand why beta testsoftware wouldn't work like trial software, but that's life I suppose.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 3:59am
Hi,
I think Beta release is the same as a final release so I guess you have to wait for final release and download evaluation version
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 4:15am
Won't be around then. I got a new job yesterday so will move on before the new evaluation becomes available. After I've gone, the ability of my organistaion to be able to implement something like this will not exist (I'm the only programmer).
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 7:52am
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Hi,
Implement? Just have to drop SkinFramework control on the form and thats it. Oh yes and two lines of code:
SkinFramework.LoadSkin App.Path & "\OFFICE2007.cjstyles", "Normalblue.ini"
SkinFramework.ApplyWindow <startup form>.hWnd Just in case someone of your old organization will look into this forum as well
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 8:31am
Hmm, I seem to remember that being all Ihad to do with the last version. The one that didn't work for some minor controls, like menus.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 9:19am
But now you don't have to use Commandbars anymore, SkinFrameWork will handle VB menu. Just as you would use your VB menu but only in a modern look. Including popup and system menu. Show me a control who does that also
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: sabarntt
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 9:26am
Don't believe one does. That's why I wa so anxious to use this product. It was, by a very long way, the best skinning tool I came across. What bothered me was the attitude I got to my initial enquiry.
Obviously, someone listened and saw the value of skinning the menus. It's just a real shame it's too late for me.
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Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 19 September 2008 at 2:43pm
I haven't bothered with the beta ... soooo ... are you confirming that the menus definitely work when you have a container control (such as SSPanel) on the form? THAT was the issue before, because menus worked already on a form providing the form didn't have a container control.
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 3:25am
Hi,
In earlier version Commandbars would handle VB menu but you had to rewrite some code to enable/disable menu items, right? In V12.1 SkinFrameWork will handle VB menu just as VB menu without having to rewrite code. Menu items will be skinned and your original code will be executed. Also the system menu and popupmenu items will be skinned as well. I'm working on an old app right now, there are some minor problems but I'm sure CJ will fix these in final release. This is the solution to get rid of the "out of time" VB menu
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 21 September 2008 at 11:32am
That wasn't my question. My question was, can you confirm that they work now if you have a container control on the form?
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Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 22 September 2008 at 2:24pm
Hi,
I believe it doesn't matter what control you have on the form, only you can't have a mix with VB menu and Commandbars menu. Because CommandBars will convert menu as well, it will be a problem. Setting CJ activemenubar visible = false will solve this. So CJ Statusbar is possible as well, but you can still use your MS statusbar. But if you want me to test this for you, upload SSPanel or give me address where to download. ------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 22 September 2008 at 2:43pm
| I thought the panel control was a standard control with VB6. If you have it, you set the Align to vbAlignTop. If you don't have the panel, use any other container control (such as frame or picture) and place it across the top of the form. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 23 September 2008 at 1:15am
Hi,
I have MS toolbars aligned to top in my app... is that enough to make you a believer? If you are going to test this I suggest you use MS toolbar 5.0 , there's a small problem with MS Toolbar 6.0 in first Beta release (but this has been fixed already see post https://forum.codejock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12126 - https://forum.codejock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12126 ) maybe they added fix already in current Beta downloads...
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 23 September 2008 at 11:52am
| What is MS toolbar? Is it a control on XtremeSuite 12.0 (which is the version I am using), because I've never seen it before. |
Posted By: Aaron
Date Posted: 23 September 2008 at 12:18pm
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Hi,
It's a control of Microsoft common controls ComCTL32 library. Just an ordinary toolbar where you can add buttons (like CJ Commandbars toolbar) This control can be aligned as well.
------------- Product: Xtreme SuitePro (ActiveX) version 15.0.2 Platform: Windows XP (32bit) - SP 2 Language: Visual Basic 6.0 Zero replies is not an option.... |
Posted By: corpcon
Date Posted: 23 September 2008 at 1:01pm
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Oh - THAT thing! I completely forgot about it. I haven't looked at that control in 15 years. Ok, if that works, then great! I look forward to the final release of 12.1.
I may end up reverting back to my old menus then, because I can't always get command bars menus to work exactly as I would like.
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